Upgraded AMD Budget Platform
Moving on to our upgraded AMD budget system, our preferences are reversed. Whereas we give AMD the advantage in the true budget sector, if you are willing to spend a bit more money in order to upgrade performance the advantage moves over to Intel. The upgraded budget systems can cost quite a bit more, although you can certainly choose a few the upgrades and stick with other baseline recommendations. You can also refer to our last
Midrange Buyer's Guide for additional component alternatives. We have upgraded every core component, and the end result is definitely closer to midrange rather than budget. As we said in the beginning, current memory prices as well as the added performance available make it difficult for us to recommend a true budget configuration right now.
| Upgraded Budget AMD Athlon X2 AM2 System |
| Hardware |
Component |
Price |
| Processor |
AMD Athlon X2 (AM2) 3800+ - 2.0GHz 2x512KB |
$160 |
| Motherboard |
DFI Infinity ULTRAII-M2 - nForce4 Ultra AM2 |
$96 |
| Memory |
PQI POWER Series 2GB (2 x 1GB)
DDR2-533 4-4-4-12 |
$195 |
| Video Card |
XFX PVT73GUGF3 - GeForce 7600GT 256MB |
$146 |
| Hard Drive |
Samsung SpinPoint P 250GB
SATA3.0Gbps 250GB 8MB 7200RPM |
$76 |
| Optical Drive |
LG GSA-H10N 16X DVD+/-RW (12X DVD-RAM) |
$36 |
| System Total |
$709 |
| Complete Package |
$995 - $1267 |
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Starting with the processor, the logical choice once again falls to one of the cheapest Athlon X2 CPUs. We could have gone for the X2 3600+ (2.0GHz 2x256K cache), but we don't feel the reduction in L2 cache per core to 256K is worth the $12 saved. (Feel free to disagree, however, as it isn't a terrible choice either.) About the only advantage that AMD currently holds over Intel is price, both for their CPUs as well as their motherboards. The net difference amounts to roughly $30, and for that price we would definitely encourage you to purchase a Core 2 Duo system instead. If you're averse to purchasing Intel hardware for whatever reason, you'll still get great performance from an Athlon X2 setup. Depending on what you plan on doing, you might not ever see the faster performance Core 2 offers anyway; many tasks are going to be bottlenecked by something other than the CPU, in which case saving the money is a fine alternative. Having higher performance potential is nice, but if you never use it than it really doesn't matter.
 |
For the upgraded AM2 motherboard, we decided to choose something that was still inexpensive but that would offer a lot of overclocking potential. The DFI Infinity ULTRAII-M2 uses the older nForce4 Ultra chipset, which still works with socket AM2. DFI also offers pseudo-SLI support, with the second PCI-E X16 slot running at X2 bandwidth. We aren't too concerned with SLI support, but we aren't going to complain about getting a second X16 PEG slot either. Despite using an older chipset, this DFI motherboard offers one of the most stable, painless overclocking experiences that we have encountered in recent history, and a 50% or higher overclock (depending on CPU) is not at all difficult to achieve.
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On the memory front, once again we had a debate on our hands. Getting 1GB of memory into the baseline recommendation was already difficult, but for the upgraded systems did we want to stick with that or did we want to move up to 2GB of RAM? If you plan on running Windows Vista during the life of your computer, having more memory is definitely going to be useful. Many of us also already run into memory constraints even without the added bloat of Vista, and while the price is high we really feel the upgrade to 2GB of RAM is worthwhile. Modern dual core systems allow you to run more programs concurrently than ever before without experiencing a slowdown, but only if you have enough memory. A bunch of web browser windows/tabs, several office applications, various chat programs, perhaps a firewall and antivirus software, maybe a BitTorrent client, and if you're like me speech recognition software... throw all that together (something many of us at AnandTech do on a daily basis) and 2GB isn't just recommended, it's required. The PQI Power memory kit has a lower rated bandwidth than the 512MB DIMMs we listed earlier (DDR2-533), but it also comes with better timings (4-4-4-12). It should still be good for moderate overclocking as well, provided you give it a bit more voltage and relax the timings. Memory like this used to cost closer to $140, and prices are slowly beginning to come down again. There's currently a $25 mail-in rebate available on this PQI memory, although even without the rebate the price is still better than most competing offerings.
If you can find similar quality memory from one of the major manufacturers (A-DATA, Corsair, Crucial, Kingston, Mushkin, OCZ, Patriot, etc.) for less money, that was our primary criteria in finding reasonable memory. You can also look at upgrading to DDR2-667 or even DDR2-800 memory, although you will definitely pay more for the latter right now. DDR2-800 memory will guarantee you that level of memory performance (assuming the RAM is compatible with your motherboard, which is thankfully becoming less of the concern now), and overclocking enthusiasts will definitely want to give serious consideration toward spending a bit more money on memory, especially for the Core 2 Duo platform.
Just about any upper-budget or midrange system is going to do away with integrated graphics, and this is no exception. We were faced with several options for discrete graphics, ranging from the low-end X1300 and 7300 up through more expensive solutions like the X1900 GT. While the latter definitely sounds like it has no place in a budget guide, we do have to point out that there are very few graphics cards in the $120 price range that currently include HDCP support. Moving up to the $200 price range, you begin to find quite a few more HDCP solutions. If you care about gaming performance or you want HDCP, a Radeon X1900 or GeForce 7900 series card isn't a bad idea (the GeCube GC-H1900GTD-VID3 is one such option). If you don't care much about gaming or HDCP, but you want a better motherboard than our base recommendation (i.e., for overclocking), just about any discrete graphics card will be acceptable.
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We eventually settled on the GeForce 7600 GT as our upgrade pick, but even then there were several considerations we still had to make. Many vendors are offering factory overclocked cards, although the minor differences in clock speed usually aren't worth losing sleep over. We also saw some short-term sales, for example a BFG 7600 GT was going for $120 earlier this week, but once the sale is over we are back to looking at prices and features. You can still find a cheaper 7600 GT card, or you could downgrade to the 7600 GS. We chose to go with the XFX 7600 GT at a slightly higher price, not because of the factory overclock (which it has), but rather because it includes two DVI ports instead of a VGA port and a DVI port. We prefer LCDs these days, and we prefer to use LCDs with a DVI connection. DVI ports can also be useful for connecting your computer to many HDTVs. For these reasons, we were willing to spend an extra $15. If you disagree with us, EVGA, BFG, and many others offer competing graphics cards that may or may not be cheaper.
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mpc7488 - Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - link
As the subject, good article, these system guides are always fun to read and debate.You do touch on the OEM systems up front, but I didn't feel they got quite enough attention. At this price point, for budget systems that is, they are really a powerful option. I rounded up some pricing to compare:
The budget system as quoted in this article is:
Budget AMD: Athlon 64 3000+, 1 GB DDR2-667, 160 GB HDD, GeForce 6150, DVD-R/W, 19” Sceptre, keyboard, mouse, X-230 speakers, Win XP Home
Tally: $749 ($368 + $381)
Now then, let's compare to what Dell has on sale.
Dell AMD E521: Athlon 64 X2 3800+, 1 GB DDR2-533, 160 GB HDD, GeForce 6150, DVD, 19” Dell 1907FP Ultrasharp, keyboard, mouse, Win XP Home, 1 year on-site warranty.
Tally: $625 ($579, free shipping, ~$46 tax (NY))
With a $30 DVD-R/W upgrade these systems are essentially the same, with the Dell having a much faster dual-core processor, a very quiet case, and a warranty, with $100 cash in pocket. If you don’t need a monitor, the price drops to $430.92, after shipping and tax. With Windows! The user in this range often wants decent performance and usability but the PC isn't enough of a priority to spend a lot of cash, or they are poor college students forgoing Ramen noodles to upgrade their video cards, but I digress. Point being, the warranty coverage and tech support are usually the most valuable to budget purchasers, which also factors in subjectively.
I am not a n00b, you say! I want pure performance at Hyundai prices! Ok, let's look stricly at performance with OEMs, i.e., upgrading. A lot of the older Dells didn’t have expansion slots, which sucked, but a lot of the newer chassis do, and this one has one PCIe x16 slot which opens up upgrading as an option. As the article points out, graphics horsepower means more than CPU at the moment. So with a couple of additions to our Dell box:
DVD-R/W: $29
XFX GeForce 7900 GT: $199.99 (after $50 MIR from Newegg)
Toss in $10 for shipping, and that is a really nice gaming rig with a 3800+ X2, 1 GB of RAM, and a 7900GT for <$865 with a legal copy of Windows and a warranty. Yes, you will feel dirty every time you press the power button above the 'Dell' logo, but it'll fade quickly once you're gaming at high res with AA on your 1907FP.
All this said - I build my own systems, always. I like overclocking and mucking about in the BIOS, choosing my own heatsink/fan combo, and so forth too much to ever make an OEM system my primary box. But they can be really nice to suggest to friends, neighbors, acquaintences, and even enthusiasts without enough time or energy to build their own.
Thanks for stimulating my brain Jarred! A good PC hardware discussion always wakes me up in the morning.
misanthropy - Thursday, October 26, 2006 - link
The power suppy for that dell system can't handle a 7900GT, n00b.mpc7488 - Friday, October 27, 2006 - link
Actually it can, and does. I personally know someone running that config. no problem, Google it and you'll find others. I was wondering if that would come up, good point to raise regardless of malice.yehuda - Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - link
The Dell E521 would be perfect if it had DVI onboard. The integrated GeForce 6150 graphics processor is readily capable of that, only the physical connector is missing.http://www.nvidia.com/page/gpu_mobo_tech_specs.htm...">http://www.nvidia.com/page/gpu_mobo_tech_specs.htm...
JarredWalton - Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - link
You are correct that the OEM systems are a pretty good deal. However, please remember to include speakers and a minor upgrade to the mouse. Depending on whether or not you want to argue about taxes and shipping, the net result is that the price ends up very close to what you would pay for the same configuration in DIY clothing. Here's what I got:Base AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 Dual-Core 3800+
Operating System Genuine Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2005
Memory 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
Keyboard Dell USB Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse
Monitor 19 inch Ultrasharp™ 1907FP Digital Flat Panel
Video Card 256MB NVIDIA Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
Hard Drive 160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Floppy Drive and Media Reader No Floppy Drive Included
Mouse Mouse included in Wireless, Laser or Bluetooth Package
Network Interface Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
Modem No Modem Option
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
CD ROM/DVD ROM 16x DVD+/-RW Drive
Sound Cards Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Speakers Dell A525 30 Watt 2.1 Stereo Speakers with Subwoofer
Office Productivity Software (Pre-Installed) No productivity suite- Includes Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
Security Software No Security Subscription
Warranty and Service 1Yr Ltd Warranty and At-Home Service
Internet Access Service 6 Months of EarthLink Internet Access Included
Miscellaneous Award Winning Service and Support
Future Operating Systems Windows Vista™ Capable
Dell Digital Entertainment No preinstalled software
TOTAL:$729.00
Tax: $61
Final Bill: $790.
Compare that to the budget config, only add in the CPU upgrade and use the XP accessory package. Also factor in the 7300 LE TC Dell includes. You end up saving about $75 all told, which is where I arrived at my conclusion: "You still get a lower price on the software [Works is also included if you care about that].... We feel that our buyer's guides offer better expandability, performance, and features at roughly the same price, with the only potential drawback being that you have to know how to put together the system yourself."
My point in including the OEM paragraph was to make sure people were aware of the option. I would say the overall component selection in the budget config is slightly better than what Dell gives, but if you just plan on using the computer without any performance tuning then the Dell (and probably HP and others) would come out on top. I will make this more clear, though, as I really do mean people should consider OEM systems at the bottom of the price range.
gman003 - Thursday, October 26, 2006 - link
Jarred,I would have to say that the Dell option is a good option, but in many peoples case, not the best option. I just recommended the Dell OEM system to a friend because I was running short on time. After 3-4 weeks of "build" time, the Dell finally arrived. I believe he placed his order in the month of Septemeber, so it was late September. He just received his computer this week, on the 23rd. I felt bad for the poor guy. He had ordered a 19" LCD from newegg the same day as the Dell system, but the LCD showed up on his doorstep on October 2nd.
The computer arrived and is what you would expect for a AMD X2 3800+ system. I just don't know if it was really worth waiting around for, ya know? So you have that going against the Dell system. Now, let's take into account the problems of dealing with Dell when a warranty or heaven-forbid, a technical problem happens.
I have called Dell about 10 times in the last 2 months for warranty, parts, issues, etc. and every call has been to an Indian person with poor English, which results in poor customer service. My shortest call to one person, took 30 minutes because of how many times you have to repeat yourself to them so that they can understand you. It's just awful. My longest call has been somewhere around 2-3 hours. This is not an exaggeration. I have phone records to prove it. Compare this to buying a DIY rig from a site like newegg or zipzoomfly where the delivery time is 3 days and warranty issues are handled by an actual American person residing here in the good ol' US of A. I just can't say that the Dell is worth the small amount of cost savings for the nightmares that await some people that have to deal with Dell after the sale.
As a PC builder, I would rather help people build their own computer than have them deal with Dell. I would hope the rest of the technical community would do the same.
JarredWalton - Thursday, October 26, 2006 - link
I merely used Dell as one example, being that they are currently the largest OEM. Feel free to insert HP, Gateway, or some other OEM and you will still usually get similar prices (if not worse).gman003 - Friday, October 27, 2006 - link
Not entirely true. There is an article on a shall we say "competing website", that stated that HP had actually surpassed Dell during this quarter or this year for total desktops/laptops etc. They considered it a tie, but HP had a small lead, so there :-pActually, my main point was that, the Dell OEM system like any other OEM system is good, but is probably not worth the savings when you take into account having to deal with the manufacturer when problems happen. It may not justify saving $50-$100 for an OEM system like that since you have to deal with shall we say "Indians", that have a horrible time trying to understand what you are saying.
Waiting 3-4 weeks for your computer to show up is not worth the cost savings. Having horrible customer support is not worth the cost savings. Just buy a custom built rig everytime and deal with a homegrown US of A company like newegg or zipzoomfly. They will handle your RMA promptly and efficiently in my past experiences compared to Dell.
Let's try to do away with Dell. Just remember, everytime you call Dell, its like Hell.
Frumious1 - Friday, October 27, 2006 - link
That has to be one of the most ignorant posts I've read in a long time. Racism and nationalism combined. What more could we ask for!? "Don't buy Dell because you'll get support from Indians!" Okay, let's think about a few things. Most of the people who call Dell technical support our computer novices, and often they are calling with stupid questions. They certainly aren't capable of building their own system and installing windows XP and all of the other software! What exactly is going to be the response of Newegg or Zipzoomfly if you should call up and informed them that you're having problems with drivers, Windows, etc.?Generally speaking, the support from most online retailers is going to be if you need a hardware replacement. How often do you need to replace hardware in an OEM system because it fails on arrival or soon after? I have supported hundreds of Dell systems at an IT job, and while we definitely had component failures over the years, it was typically less than 10% of the systems that had problems during a three-year period.
If you purchase separate components and you get a failed piece of hardware, unless you spend extra in order to get an additional warranty, you're basically stuck RMAing the device. I have done that several times with new egg, and it is always at least a week delay if not two. Four weeks to get a complete system built and assembled, right around the time that Intel launched Core 2 Duo and everyone finally had a reason to buy Dell systems again? That's not that big of a problem in my book, especially considering all of the problems that were going on with P965.
Now let's shift over to Dell (or HP). On the offhand you get a bad component with your computer and you know how to troubleshoot it enough to tell that your hard drive, motherboard, whatever is the problem, what sort of support you get? Maybe you have to deal with the call center from India, but once you tell them "I turn my computer on and it won't work. It tells me boot device not found" you will usually be directed towards your local support location. Take the computer in, and perhaps in as little as one hour you will have your system fixed and running, certainly no more than a day or two. That sort of support comes standard for one year, and you can upgrade to two years for a moderate fee.
Dell is no angel, but neither are they that bad. They are, like most companies, looking to make money. You still get what you pay for, which means if you go with the cheap systems you get cheaper quality and lower performance. My biggest complaint with Dell is their motherboards, as that's the one area where low quality often leads to instability over time. That opinion once again stems from my support of hundreds of Dell computers.
gman003 - Friday, October 27, 2006 - link
No, Dell really is that bad. Do you know how many times you have to repeat yourself to them. They have horrible customer service. That alone is reason enough to not buy from them. I have way too many tell me how bad their experiences with Dell are all the time.The response of newegg or zipzoomfly for a bad motherboard that you have to RMA is this, "Ok sir, go ahead and purchase a new one. Send us your bad motherboard and we will reimburse you once we have received the board." 3 days later you have a new board. If the same situation happened at Dell, you would be on the phone for over an hour telling them your case number, service tag, location, etc. so they can document it. Then you would wait 2-4 weeks for your part to arrive. Thanks, but no thanks.
Can you really deny the fact that Dell's customer service center is in India and they have the worst accents on the planet?
It took 4 weeks to build an AMD X2 3800 system if you had actually read the post correctly. You really think 4 weeks is an average time it should take to build a system that has been out for a year now? C'mon, gimme a break.