Very interesting builds for the $800 mark, I really liked the Silverstone form factor but would not hesitate to go with the Crucial option if they sacrifice the optical drive in favor of a better GPU (i.e. GTX 960)
Since the Core V1 is designed for VGA with lengths up to 260mm [10.23 in], I would've gone with the PowerColor PCS+ R9 380 2GB (980Mhz/1475Mhz) which is 8.16 inches long. Newegg has that for $145 -AR$20 w/FS. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
Definitely more BfB and not an issue for that 600W PSU choice.
I recommend taking the dust filter off the GPU side, as it causes that side of the case to trap more heat. In my case, HD7870, it was an extra 5C with the filter on.
The BX100 is to be succeeded by the BX200. If this build log were to be done with the BX100 off the market, they'd either have to factor in extra cost for the MX200 or absolutely abysmal SSD performance that trumps even the V4 in badness.
Smart, Crucial. That doesn't change your abhorrent excuse of an SSD, found in the one and only BX200.
I'm wondering how you are going to install Windows 10 with the Pentium G3258. The bundled microcode update Microsoft pushed in June to Windows 7/8 is already built in to Windows 10, and this update borks Windows from booting on a Pentium G3258. You have to delete the microcode update DLL from the installation media just to get Windows 10 to install.
It happened in a few B85 oem boards at the office. I even tested a chip in an HP Elitedesk 800 and same result.
Overclocking and motherboard chipsets all have nothing to do with microcode. The flaw is in a register call to the second core. The ONLY was to run the microcode update is to disable the second core.
Oops, I arguably should have mentioned the Windows install process. But getting the G3258 running isn't difficult, but does require a couple extra steps. But you have the right idea Samus, disable one core, delete or rename the microcode update DLL, and re-enable the second core. Then it's off to the races like nothing ever happened.
It's worth noting that the Silverstone build was $20 higher priced than the Crucial build - exactly the price difference between the 950 and 960 cards. The Crucial build, including the 960, would be much stronger for gaming and the better machine overall - at almost the exact same price point as the Silverstone rig.
Well as I find *no* reviews for that single fan EVGA 950, all we can go by are several Eggviews that do discuss the heat and noise aspects of the card. "Really pushes it hard and it gets extremely hot. I have their EVGA Precision software to control voltage and fan speed, it has to run the fan at 2000 and higher to keep it from hitting 80C and higher. I've gotten to stay around low 70's so far, but it does run pretty hot".... "Fan when under load kicks into high gear and is not very quiet, though I am not saying this thing is a jet engine either."... "Fan usually doesn't kick in until it needs to, this keeps the noise down when not under load."
Sure the 380 has to dissipate ~25% more watts under load, but the PowerColor PCS+ has a very compact 3 heat-pipe lay-out for it's size, and the fans turn-off at ide also. I see two fans and heat pipe cooler doing better than I think what's a fairly smallish extrusion (or is that a stamping) very had to tell what's under there. Honestly, a single fan and whatever cooler is under there vs. a 3 pipe cooler and two fans, I might say there's either zero difference in noise, or the PCS+ might be quieter. If the EVGA was a rear exhaust I might say it had merit... But just because it supposed lower power, a single fan, and ITX size does it instantly mean it will run cooler or produce less noise.
If it about gaming that PCS+ is the hands down BfB, and I'd rather buy something I know what's under the hood.
Giving up performance on both builds just to fit in a SSD is so darn silly. The first build can easily fit the other's CPU if it gives up the SSD. It can even include a 7200rpm drive instead of a 5400. The pentium is so not future proof as games already ask for 4 cores without hacks and overclocking it to get performance in such a small case will certainly pose problems.
Buying a computer of any sort beyond an absolute cheapest piece of crap on the shelf in worstbuy race to the bottom failbox/failbook without an SSD is even sillier. A system that's crippled by only having a spinning HDD will inflict pain on the user all the time with brief random pauses due to the appallingly slow and high latency IO.
Sure....lets have the user buy an already outdated piece of technology with their hard earned money which would hardly last a year or two for gaming purposes and maybe a year for other more CPU intensive tasks, just so that they could compensate for bad software and software management with an expensive component. Lets ask the user instead to overclock that could result in decreased longevity for all of its parts. That's definitely the more convenient and less risky way to go about this. Sure...
And lets not forget that the user will not get the full 120GB after formatting the SSD. And after installing Windows and essential software like antivirus, browser, codec pack,etc you will probably be left with 80-90GB. That's just enough space for 2 modern games. But obviously the incovenience of managing your data constantly is far less than brief random pauses of a spinning HDD. Sure...
I have to use an HDD only crippled computer at work every day. I'd kill for even a 64GB SSD; which'd let me hold the OS a few key applications and the sourcecode for whatever I'm working on at the moment. Having to manually manage that a few times a year as I switch projects would be much less frustrating than the random HDD freezes I get a few times a day.
Your random HDD freezes could do with not the HDD itself but with the software on it. If you are on a windows machine, run crystaldiskinfo to confirm whether your hard disk is in good condition. If it is, you could check out the event viewer in windows to see if it logs the random freezes.
My observations aren't about any single computer except to the extent that outside of work I all of mine are SSD based and have been for years. Every HDD computer I've ever used, whether for home, work, or school has done it. Up until I bought my first SSD 5(?) years ago, I'd accepted it as just the way computers were. Now it's something I swear at every time I have to use someone else's piece of junk.
In my experience RAM is more important for speeding up games; I'd still want an SSD to boost load times, but if dealing with a budget I think an SSD is something can be left till later (plus you'll appreciate the difference more). The 1tb Seagate SSHD is currently very reasonably priced, so would eat some of the speed difference, which is why it's my preference for any budget build.
It's also worth looking at a motherboard with an M.2 slot, so when you upgrade to an SSD you can get something much, much better. The 256gb Samsung 950 NVMe M.2 SSD is pricey compared to SATA offerings, but 2.2Gb/sec I think it'd be way more worth it, as a future upgrade than forcing in a relatively weak SSD now and end up lumbered with a dual-core only CPU.
Enough ram to only swap under exceptional circumstances is something I assume is a given in any halfway decent system along with a PSU that won't self destruct under load and destroy your system. (jonnyguru has fun destructively reviewing these every one in a while.)
That's odd. That usually doesn't happen unless you are running the latest intel skylake systems. My point here is though that prioritising loading times and a random hiccup here and there while using the system is far more tolerant if what you get in return is a much stronger CPU and GPU which will improve system performance FAAR more and make it more futureproof.
For small form factor I'm actually rather intrigued by the Sharkoon CA-I; it's taller and narrower than the Thermaltake case, with a top mounted exhaust fan (which is my preference for exhaust anyway). It only takes half-length cards (20.7cm or less), but it's very reasonably priced, well made and compact, the only thing it lacks is a carrying handle which would be nice (might be possible to add one myself).
I managed to get two systems for it under the $800 mark, though the component prices are varying wildly and you need to get the case from elsewhere (I've seen it as low as $40 though), so keeping it under budget may require some tweaks:
Built something similar for my mom (no games or crunching purposes at all): Chassis Fractal Design Core 500 PSU Corsair RM550 (wanted 450 but wasn't avail) SSD Crucial MX200 250GB M.2 2280 DVD some cheap Samsung DVD-+RW RAM Kingston HyperX Fury 8GB kit (2x4) DDR4, 2133MHz CL14 MB Gigabyte GA-H170N-WIFI CPU Intel Core i3-6100T OS Windows 10 Home 64bit
There were few requirements: small, silent, with wifi and dvd drive, long lifespan/easy replacement or upgrade. Have to say it's completely silent unless you put your ear just on the fans and feels more responsive than my i5-2500K, which I didn't expect at all.
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32 Comments
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romrunning - Wednesday, November 4, 2015 - link
Your ThermalTake links are reversed for the PSU and case on the Crucial build.Ryan Smith - Wednesday, November 4, 2015 - link
Good catch. Thank you!Billie Boyd - Friday, November 27, 2015 - link
$800 is still a lot. I recommend seeing CybertronPC Patriot (also seen at http://www.consumerrunner.com/top-10-best-desktops... specially build for hard gamers. One of the top rated and only cost less.Winterblade - Wednesday, November 4, 2015 - link
Very interesting builds for the $800 mark, I really liked the Silverstone form factor but would not hesitate to go with the Crucial option if they sacrifice the optical drive in favor of a better GPU (i.e. GTX 960)extide - Thursday, November 5, 2015 - link
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, ditch the DVD drive and go to a 960, or maybe like an R9 380.Casecutter - Wednesday, November 4, 2015 - link
Since the Core V1 is designed for VGA with lengths up to 260mm [10.23 in], I would've gone with the PowerColor PCS+ R9 380 2GB (980Mhz/1475Mhz) which is 8.16 inches long. Newegg has that for $145 -AR$20 w/FS.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
Definitely more BfB and not an issue for that 600W PSU choice.
The_Assimilator - Thursday, November 5, 2015 - link
Hotter and therefore almost certainly noisier.meacupla - Wednesday, November 4, 2015 - link
I recommend taking the dust filter off the GPU side, as it causes that side of the case to trap more heat.In my case, HD7870, it was an extra 5C with the filter on.
tabascosauz - Wednesday, November 4, 2015 - link
Ha! Such impeccable timing.The BX100 is to be succeeded by the BX200. If this build log were to be done with the BX100 off the market, they'd either have to factor in extra cost for the MX200 or absolutely abysmal SSD performance that trumps even the V4 in badness.
Smart, Crucial. That doesn't change your abhorrent excuse of an SSD, found in the one and only BX200.
tabascosauz - Wednesday, November 4, 2015 - link
Whoops, other way around. SS was the one that got lucky. Crucial's build has the MX200.Samus - Thursday, November 5, 2015 - link
I'm wondering how you are going to install Windows 10 with the Pentium G3258. The bundled microcode update Microsoft pushed in June to Windows 7/8 is already built in to Windows 10, and this update borks Windows from booting on a Pentium G3258. You have to delete the microcode update DLL from the installation media just to get Windows 10 to install.meacupla - Thursday, November 5, 2015 - link
this, apparently, only happens on overclocked G3258, and especially if it's not using a Z chipset.Samus - Thursday, November 5, 2015 - link
It happened in a few B85 oem boards at the office. I even tested a chip in an HP Elitedesk 800 and same result.Overclocking and motherboard chipsets all have nothing to do with microcode. The flaw is in a register call to the second core. The ONLY was to run the microcode update is to disable the second core.
Daniel Williams - Thursday, November 5, 2015 - link
Oops, I arguably should have mentioned the Windows install process. But getting the G3258 running isn't difficult, but does require a couple extra steps. But you have the right idea Samus, disable one core, delete or rename the microcode update DLL, and re-enable the second core. Then it's off to the races like nothing ever happened.With that everything works out fine.
m0d0nne11 - Thursday, November 5, 2015 - link
I'm hoping that you'll please, Please, PLEASE offer some gorgeous systems like these but specifically intended to run Linux!Denithor - Thursday, November 5, 2015 - link
It's worth noting that the Silverstone build was $20 higher priced than the Crucial build - exactly the price difference between the 950 and 960 cards. The Crucial build, including the 960, would be much stronger for gaming and the better machine overall - at almost the exact same price point as the Silverstone rig.Mangosteen - Thursday, November 5, 2015 - link
You could've at least extended the giveaway to Canada and the UK sheeshCasecutter - Thursday, November 5, 2015 - link
Well as I find *no* reviews for that single fan EVGA 950, all we can go by are several Eggviews that do discuss the heat and noise aspects of the card. "Really pushes it hard and it gets extremely hot. I have their EVGA Precision software to control voltage and fan speed, it has to run the fan at 2000 and higher to keep it from hitting 80C and higher. I've gotten to stay around low 70's so far, but it does run pretty hot".... "Fan when under load kicks into high gear and is not very quiet, though I am not saying this thing is a jet engine either."... "Fan usually doesn't kick in until it needs to, this keeps the noise down when not under load."Sure the 380 has to dissipate ~25% more watts under load, but the PowerColor PCS+ has a very compact 3 heat-pipe lay-out for it's size, and the fans turn-off at ide also. I see two fans and heat pipe cooler doing better than I think what's a fairly smallish extrusion (or is that a stamping) very had to tell what's under there. Honestly, a single fan and whatever cooler is under there vs. a 3 pipe cooler and two fans, I might say there's either zero difference in noise, or the PCS+ might be quieter. If the EVGA was a rear exhaust I might say it had merit... But just because it supposed lower power, a single fan, and ITX size does it instantly mean it will run cooler or produce less noise.
If it about gaming that PCS+ is the hands down BfB, and I'd rather buy something I know what's under the hood.
isaac12345 - Thursday, November 5, 2015 - link
Giving up performance on both builds just to fit in a SSD is so darn silly. The first build can easily fit the other's CPU if it gives up the SSD. It can even include a 7200rpm drive instead of a 5400. The pentium is so not future proof as games already ask for 4 cores without hacks and overclocking it to get performance in such a small case will certainly pose problems.DanNeely - Thursday, November 5, 2015 - link
Buying a computer of any sort beyond an absolute cheapest piece of crap on the shelf in worstbuy race to the bottom failbox/failbook without an SSD is even sillier. A system that's crippled by only having a spinning HDD will inflict pain on the user all the time with brief random pauses due to the appallingly slow and high latency IO.isaac12345 - Friday, November 6, 2015 - link
Sure....lets have the user buy an already outdated piece of technology with their hard earned money which would hardly last a year or two for gaming purposes and maybe a year for other more CPU intensive tasks, just so that they could compensate for bad software and software management with an expensive component. Lets ask the user instead to overclock that could result in decreased longevity for all of its parts. That's definitely the more convenient and less risky way to go about this. Sure...isaac12345 - Friday, November 6, 2015 - link
And lets not forget that the user will not get the full 120GB after formatting the SSD. And after installing Windows and essential software like antivirus, browser, codec pack,etc you will probably be left with 80-90GB. That's just enough space for 2 modern games. But obviously the incovenience of managing your data constantly is far less than brief random pauses of a spinning HDD. Sure...isaac12345 - Friday, November 6, 2015 - link
Try running this on any of these systems - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-11-06-assas...DanNeely - Friday, November 6, 2015 - link
I have to use an HDD only crippled computer at work every day. I'd kill for even a 64GB SSD; which'd let me hold the OS a few key applications and the sourcecode for whatever I'm working on at the moment. Having to manually manage that a few times a year as I switch projects would be much less frustrating than the random HDD freezes I get a few times a day.isaac12345 - Friday, November 6, 2015 - link
Your random HDD freezes could do with not the HDD itself but with the software on it. If you are on a windows machine, run crystaldiskinfo to confirm whether your hard disk is in good condition. If it is, you could check out the event viewer in windows to see if it logs the random freezes.DanNeely - Saturday, November 7, 2015 - link
My observations aren't about any single computer except to the extent that outside of work I all of mine are SSD based and have been for years. Every HDD computer I've ever used, whether for home, work, or school has done it. Up until I bought my first SSD 5(?) years ago, I'd accepted it as just the way computers were. Now it's something I swear at every time I have to use someone else's piece of junk.Haravikk - Saturday, November 7, 2015 - link
In my experience RAM is more important for speeding up games; I'd still want an SSD to boost load times, but if dealing with a budget I think an SSD is something can be left till later (plus you'll appreciate the difference more). The 1tb Seagate SSHD is currently very reasonably priced, so would eat some of the speed difference, which is why it's my preference for any budget build.It's also worth looking at a motherboard with an M.2 slot, so when you upgrade to an SSD you can get something much, much better. The 256gb Samsung 950 NVMe M.2 SSD is pricey compared to SATA offerings, but 2.2Gb/sec I think it'd be way more worth it, as a future upgrade than forcing in a relatively weak SSD now and end up lumbered with a dual-core only CPU.
DanNeely - Saturday, November 7, 2015 - link
Enough ram to only swap under exceptional circumstances is something I assume is a given in any halfway decent system along with a PSU that won't self destruct under load and destroy your system. (jonnyguru has fun destructively reviewing these every one in a while.)isaac12345 - Tuesday, November 10, 2015 - link
That's odd. That usually doesn't happen unless you are running the latest intel skylake systems. My point here is though that prioritising loading times and a random hiccup here and there while using the system is far more tolerant if what you get in return is a much stronger CPU and GPU which will improve system performance FAAR more and make it more futureproof.Haravikk - Saturday, November 7, 2015 - link
For small form factor I'm actually rather intrigued by the Sharkoon CA-I; it's taller and narrower than the Thermaltake case, with a top mounted exhaust fan (which is my preference for exhaust anyway). It only takes half-length cards (20.7cm or less), but it's very reasonably priced, well made and compact, the only thing it lacks is a carrying handle which would be nice (might be possible to add one myself).I managed to get two systems for it under the $800 mark, though the component prices are varying wildly and you need to get the case from elsewhere (I've seen it as low as $40 though), so keeping it under budget may require some tweaks:
Here's the Intel i5 version (best future upgradeability, including an PCIe 3.0 4x M.2 slot):
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail...
And here's the AMD alternative which shaves cost on motherboard and CPU for a much juicer GPU:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail...
HollyDOL - Tuesday, November 10, 2015 - link
Built something similar for my mom (no games or crunching purposes at all):Chassis Fractal Design Core 500
PSU Corsair RM550 (wanted 450 but wasn't avail)
SSD Crucial MX200 250GB M.2 2280
DVD some cheap Samsung DVD-+RW
RAM Kingston HyperX Fury 8GB kit (2x4) DDR4, 2133MHz CL14
MB Gigabyte GA-H170N-WIFI
CPU Intel Core i3-6100T
OS Windows 10 Home 64bit
There were few requirements: small, silent, with wifi and dvd drive, long lifespan/easy replacement or upgrade. Have to say it's completely silent unless you put your ear just on the fans and feels more responsive than my i5-2500K, which I didn't expect at all.